Quick getaways on a bike

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Andre Jute
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Andre Jute » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:40 pm

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive, super report, Rebecca. I'm glad your clever idea has worked out for you.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:49 pm

Andre Jute wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:40 pm
Thanks a lot for the comprehensive, super report, Rebecca. I'm glad your clever idea has worked out for you.
Sure, and I'll be posting updates as the parts come together and get tested.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:27 am

More on propping the bike. Today I took a splendid ride through what is turning into an extremely rare well advertised megabloom in the desert. We found a back route that the hoards of tourists didn't find. This time I brought my trekking pole and used the dangling wrist strap to hold the bike up with just the rear brake engaged. Perfect. I'm now dreaming up a super fast variation of this for the vertical bike position. I noticed while adjusting the shooting bipod leg lengths, it gets fiddly. I may have a better idea using a sling, or slings.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by snippety » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 am

wow that looks so good. Its funny how we always want to be "somewhere else". If i was in the states i would love to join you on painting escapades.
Im just waiting for the weather to cool down here and then to get out. I notice theres been discussion of our deserts, around the features vs non features. ive just come home with some new supplies ( paint, inks and paper) and need to get a 'go bag' ready. I know, sketching doesnt need anything more than a pencil and paper, but i think the anxiety gets channelled into ...stuff, and more special and favourite gear. Well...cape on and away.

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:48 pm

snippety wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 am
wow that looks so good. Its funny how we always want to be "somewhere else". If i was in the states i would love to join you on painting escapades.
Im just waiting for the weather to cool down here and then to get out. I notice theres been discussion of our deserts, around the features vs non features. ive just come home with some new supplies ( paint, inks and paper) and need to get a 'go bag' ready. I know, sketching doesnt need anything more than a pencil and paper, but i think the anxiety gets channelled into ...stuff, and more special and favourite gear. Well...cape on and away.
It's easy to take our local surroundings for granted. I hope I never do that with my new home here.
I actually believe proper supplies and equipment will not only give impetus to get out and sketch, but it also makes it easier to settle into the work, with more satisfying results.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your new supplies!
Rebecca

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Alitogata » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Rebecca wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:49 am

KickstandPlate.jpg
I don't want support from a low position on the bike.
Store-bought and custom to order stands have various problems. The ones that are attached low are good for firm and level ground. I will be propping my bike on sand, rubble, and areas with large rocks and otherwise uneven surfaces. I want the bike to stand vertical, supported on both sides to resist tipping in either direction. [....]
I meant something like this
https://yubabikes.com/wp-content/upload ... lone-2.jpg

With such a kind of stand the bicycle is supported on three points. Two on the legs of stand itself and one on the back wheel that is of course the place that is usually loaded. The higher you place the stand the easier for the bike to fall especially if you are trying to secure it on uneven ground.

P.S I'm getting an HTTP error when I'm trying to upload photos.

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:03 am

Alitogata wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:34 pm
I meant something like this
https://yubabikes.com/wp-content/upload ... lone-2.jpg With such a kind of stand the bicycle is supported on three points. Two on the legs of stand itself and one on the back wheel that is of course the place that is usually loaded. The higher you place the stand the easier for the bike to fall especially if you are trying to secure it on uneven ground.
Nope. By supporting high, the bike is easily balanced without stressing the frame, and the ones that are attached low like the one you point to are good for firm and level ground. I will be propping my bike on sand, rubble, and areas with large rocks and otherwise uneven surfaces. I want the bike to stand vertical, supported on both sides to resist tipping in either direction. I adjust the two telescopic leg lengths and get as level and upright as I desire. Stable as heck. Tested. Proven.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Alitogata » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:36 pm

I was touring not long time ago with fully loaded bicycles. And trust me ... this is not the proper way to support a loaded touring/cargo bicycle.
So it is not my intention to persuade you on this matter. I'm just trying to help you according to what I know from my experience as a cyclist ( with some thousands of km on the roads) in order to avoid further modifications in the future.
I wish you to have plenty of safe rides with your bicycle. :)

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:59 pm

Alitogata wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:36 pm
I was touring not long time ago with fully loaded bicycles. And trust me ... this is not the proper way to support a loaded touring/cargo bicycle.
So it is not my intention to persuade you on this matter... in order to avoid further modifications in the future.
I never modified my bike for sturdy support while sketching and painting, so there can't be further modifications. I won't ever modify it for better support. My system is working extremely well.
If you are referring to any future tweaks I might make to my proven support system, that is simply tweaking art equipment -- a normal part of making improvements for work in the field. Other improvements to come -- various detachable work systems with storage for sketching, watercolors and oils.

As for the viability of high support points, let others with touring experience tell you:
http://www.palmbeachbiketours.com/year- ... ck-stands/
and further detail by the same person: http://www.palmbeachbiketours.com/bicyc ... s-with-me/
And the one I referenced earlier in this thread:
http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2010/06/ ... ike-stand/

There are plenty more testimonials that compare supports from low vs. high positions on the frame.
----
For open minded readers, try the following experiment to illustrate how the force required for support from low to high changes on the bike:
  • 1st, balance your loaded bike with one hand at it's top center by holding the seat.
  • Next, balance your loaded bike with one hand by holding the base of the seat post where the chain stays attach (the place where kickstands are normally mounted).
    Is the bike trying to fall over? Can't make the bike stand up?
    Try two hands. Is the bike still falling over?
    How tightly must the bike be held to keep it from falling over? How much more force will your grip require to make the bike stand vertical?
This experiment demonstrates:
The lateral force that the stand must exert on the frame to counteract any imbalance is inversely proportional to the height at which it is exerting that force on the frame.

Also for open minded readers, a low mounted double pronged kickstand creates a tripod by lifting one wheel off the ground, but it is a very narrow triangle. If the center of gravity moves outside that triangle, the bike will fall over because there is insufficient force to counteract imbalance. Now imagine one of the double prongs sinking into sand. Will the bike fall over? What if the bike is on uneven terrain? Can you extend or retract one of the prongs to counteract imbalance? No.

Now, combined with both wheels, my bipod makes a wide-set 4 point support. Plus, it is adjustable to any change in terrain. Keeping the bike balanced from a high point at a vertical position from four wide apart points far more easily counteracts any imbalance than the narrowly separated 3 point contact of a double pronged kickstand. Simple mechanics.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by mdmattin » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:05 am

Beautiful blooms! Do you know their names? The juxtaposition of the flowers and parched and cracked earth is very dramatic.

As for bike supports, I augment my two pronged kickstand with guy lines and tent pegs - which are in essence widening the base of the triangle and elevating the frame contact point. They have the advantage of light weight and the drawback of having to fiddle with setting them up, and issues with the pegs in either very hard or very soggy ground.

How is the bike itself? Do you take it over very rough terrain?

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:40 am

mdmattin wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:05 am
Beautiful blooms! Do you know their names? The juxtaposition of the flowers and parched and cracked earth is very dramatic.
As for bike supports, I augment my two pronged kickstand with guy lines and tent pegs - which are in essence widening the base of the triangle and elevating the frame contact point. They have the advantage of light weight and the drawback of having to fiddle with setting them up, and issues with the pegs in either very hard or very soggy ground.
How is the bike itself? Do you take it over very rough terrain?
The yellow ones are Desert Sunflowers which either smell like sugar or dirty dish rag depending on time of day; the big white one is Dune Evening Primrose which turns pink with age; The magenta ones are Sand Verbena; The small fuzzy white ones are Popcorn Flower; and the plant with leaves extending out from a center is not yet blooming Lupine which becomes a spectacular show:
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I tried using stakes to tie down my umbrella, but they just pulled straight out of the sand. Either that, or they hit rock and wouldn't go in at all.
Most places for biking are variations of sand from very soft to firm, but there are some extremely interesting places where I must stay alert for sharp or big rocks, especially near rocky hills and gorges. This shows the range of surfaces I ride as soon as I leave the house:
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I have ridden the bike over (or around) all of these surface types. The bike is very well behaved and very nimble. In fact, it is the best biking I have ever enjoyed in my life. I took a spill in sand on my first ride out because I hadn't lowered the pressure that was set at the bike shop. Lower pressure makes soft sand easy to negotiate, though. It is even fun on asphalt roads with higher pressure in the tires. It's fast enough for me. I have ridden over big and small humps, up hills of soft sand where spinning tires create a scare, and up and down bumpy loose rock trails. I ride so slowly and carefully, I don't skid out. If something looks beyond my skill level, I walk the bike. It is a joy.

There are some things that must be mentioned about off road biking in the desert... Some of the trails are narrow and it's hard to avoid thorns hanging into the trail. Also, rattlesnakes like sunny trails and shadows next to trails at ankle level. I try to avoid shadows and thorns at all cost.
Rebecca

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:43 am

In order to improve an already excellent result with my bipod bike parking system for sketching and painting, I opposite-of-avoided further modifications with a new tweak that is less fiddly than the previous method I shared...
With this new setup, I place the fully extended bipod over the top of the seat and cinch a strap tightly between seat and cradle.
Modification_03.JPG
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This shoves both feet of the bipod into the ground and lifts and balances the bike with immediate support using no leg length adjustment, even on uneven ground. As you can see, the bipod is not equally spread from left to right because the ground on the left side is high.
Modification_02.JPG
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This is still a wide stance that provides excellent support to the bike. I did this in a big wind and the bike was as steady as a rock. I would not paint in any stronger wind than that, but I think the stand would hold in much stronger wind.
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If I wish, I can equalize the spread of the legs by shortening one of them to fit uneven terrain. While adjusting, the strap is loosened to act as a sling, holding the bike in balance until cinching down again.
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I tried the carbide tips in the dry sand to see if the hold was stronger, and it didn't seem to make a difference.
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I think those tips will be great on rock and concrete, though.
Rebecca

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