Quick getaways on a bike

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Rebecca
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Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:26 pm

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I have two meanings for this subject.

Sometimes I just want to head out and paint without advance planning. It would be great to have a mini studio ready to go.
As a woman, it's not smart to go alone, so I'm dependent on someone else's willingness to join me. Because of that, I rarely just head out and paint. It's aggravating.

Even with others out there, uncomfortable, weird and scary stuff happens. I've got stories. I value my supplies and equipment, so I tend to stay with them rather than run away. It would be great if I could quickly fold up my mini studio and dash before stuff starts.

The desert is calling. I need some exercise, too. My 40 year old 5-speed road bike (with thin tires) is useless over rocks and sand. I need a new bike.
I'm looking at this one:
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It would be like a self powered jeep for all kinds of outings, from camping to quick painting trips to shopping. I could load it with water, a necessity when temperatures go up.

Anyway, if I do get this, I could build that insta-studio for quick getaways (both coming and going).

This bike doesn't have a built-in stand. How do you make your bikes stand up for painting?
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Andre Jute » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:34 pm

My bikes are Dutch and German; they come with stands, racks, mudguards (fenders), a dynamo in the front wheel, lamps front and rear with built-in reflectors, etc, etc. One came with a toolkit including a pump and spare spokes.

Many, definitely the majority of bike manufacturers take away your warranty if you fit a stand to their bike. People with expensive bikes who don't want to lose their warranty use a collapsable stick to prop up the bike; my cycling home on the net is full of such people. If you wish I can find out the name of the maker of the sticks, who sells directly to cyclists; I think he's in Canada or even the States. However, I don't like the idea of a prop-up stand, and wilfully adding to the loose stuff on an artist's bike just isn't smart. (The stands on my bike are fitted to reinforced chain stays on a special tab welded to the chain stay, but the bike has to be designed from the beginning to survive that treatment; don't under any circumstance, no matter what a dealer tells you, allow anyone to bolt a stand to the rear of the chain stay: it will sooner or later break your bike. The only suitable place on a bike that is not designed for a stand is on the bottom of the forward chain stay in front of the link between the chain stays, that is, just behind the seatpost and bottom bracket shell.)

That bike you're thinking of buying appears strong enough behind the bottom bracket to fit a two-foot swing-over stand. The Swiss company Esge makes a really good stand; I've used their stands for years, because they are fitted by the best European custom bike builders, who supply my bikes. I can discover the model numbers of suitable stands for you.

A bike needs to be decently balanced, with the weight low down, not piled on top of the rack. In this regard, I suggest you look into the Basil Cardiff pannier basket, and order a pair from Europe if necessary -- they're probably available in the States but at a premium price; In Europe they're pretty cheap as bike luggage goes, but they're fabulously useful. They're a wire basket that you hang on the rack (normally on its lower rail if it has two rails per side). I have two Cardiffs but I usually use only one at a time, and hung on the rack it concentrates the weight of even my metal Manfrotto tripod-easel and my teacher's monstrous pochade box so low down that the bike is not unbalanced at all.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:01 am

Okay, I'll see how things develop and let you know.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by mdmattin » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:32 am

I have a Pletscher (or ESGE, same company as Andre's) double leg stand that bolts to the bottom bracket with a clamp. I bought it and had it fitted by the same shop that sold me the bike, so I doubt that it voided the warrantee. OTOH, mine is a nice but not a high end bike, so the rules might be different.

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I think this is the same model.

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It works great for my traveling mini studio and for everyday use. It's normally very stable; when I'm using the umbrella and it's windy, I augment it with guy lines and tent pegs.
I second Andre's recommendation of wire panniers - I got mine many, many years ago and though a bit crotchety, they are still quite serviceable. They fold flat for storage.

I don't recall the brand, but they look pretty much like this.

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:47 am

I got the bike. I'm planning my portable easel/storage system, probably out of corrugated plastic.
I got the wire basket Matthew pointed to. It's good. Solid. Folds up and clips to the rack when not in use. Thanks!

I took a nice ride before the rain came back. The valley here is fairly level, so I can go miles without exertion. There are countless subjects to paint. I feel pretty safe moving through areas alone, so I won't skip good painting opportunities when no one is with me.

I will also design some sort of stand for the bike.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by snippety » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:05 am

AND..real mountains..not only from a land with no clouds..but we could do with some mountains..nice, and i love the fruit hut....forget sea views.."with palms"

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:27 am

It's exotic to me, too. California has palms in most places. They sit amidst all sorts of vegetation, but here they can be the main theme. There is a large native palm species that lives in groves up steep canyons and at oases surrounded by barren badlands.

And on about the bike... It turns out that this bike has a plate welded to the base for a kick stand, but I think I'll go for something less traditional. If I engage the front and back brakes so the bike can't roll, and then prop it with a shooter's telescopic bipod that has a cradle at the top, I can support it from a high point on the frame in an upright stable position. Quick to mount and quick to remove. Yes, it is a separate part that needs to be toted, but I can add a place to quickly stash it.

The other day, I took the bike out on a longer ride that was astonishingly beautiful and varied. The path was level for 9 miles, and it would have continued, but the sun started to get low in the sky. We have an early spring bloom going on. It is impossible to capture the experience in a photo. The sight of wild flower gardens draped over stark flood cut sands and clay, and the fragrance -- well, showing photos does nothing for it, but I will post anyway. Also, on the way back, I stopped at a series of huge metal sculptures set out for the public on a large parcel of land. Back in the Bay Area, I used to go to the Rodin Sculpture garden to sketch and paint. I could do the same with the various pieces here. Just depends on the moods I'll be in.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Alitogata » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:25 am

You don't have to design a stand. There are ready made stands available that fit to any kind of frame. The only thing you have to do is to buy one and attach it in one or both of your bike's chainstays depending the type of stand that you'll buy.

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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:49 am

Alitogata wrote:You don't have to design a stand.
Correct, and I'm not going to.
Alitogata wrote:There are ready made stands available that fit to any kind of frame. The only thing you have to do is to buy one and attach it in one or both of your bike's chainstays depending the type of stand that you'll buy.
Not doing that. If I wanted to go that route, this bike has a plate welded to the base for a kick stand. Here it is..
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I don't want support from a low position on the bike.
Store-bought and custom to order stands have various problems. The ones that are attached low are good for firm and level ground. I will be propping my bike on sand, rubble, and areas with large rocks and otherwise uneven surfaces. I want the bike to stand vertical, supported on both sides to resist tipping in either direction.
This custom bike stand builder makes something close to my needs, but it requires that the bike lean against it (it would not be vertical), and it is not telescopic to adjust to uneven terrain:
http://www.click-stand.com/
However, it gets very good reviews, so the high support point concept is good. Here is one review..
http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2010/06/ ... ike-stand/

Then I remembered that there are shooters' telescopic bipods that do exactly what I want. They can support from both sides, prop the bike in a vertical position, and each leg can adjust to uneven terrain. I don't need to design it, just buy it..
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Andre Jute » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:14 am

Rebecca, your Heath Robinson device may work, or it may not; I have a similar seat that I used to take to the polo and it doesn't fit my bike anywhere where it won't do damage. The device that inspired your idea for a stand, the Clickstand, is well known among cycle-tourers, who carry heavy luggage and water, as a second choice, used only on the bikes of manufacturers who forbid bottom bracket or chainstay stands. The reason is that they do not build in strengthening for the stand mounting, and bolting on a stand can thus do irreparable damage, which cannot be covered under the guarantee. (Don't ask me why they do it. It is madness, but they can be hysterically attached to this foolish rule, which has come forward from road -- i.e. racing -- bikes.) The reason the maker of your bike welded in that plate was because he intends you to attach the stand there and only there. A bicycle is built of very thin-wall tubes, easily crushed or dented, and the owner is intended to fasten anything at all to it only on the mountings provided in the appropriate places where the tubes have been butted (thickened for extra strength, sometimes internally where you cannot see the thickening). In addition, the plate on your bike is placed there because it fills in and locks three triangles, a small one between the chainstays, the bottom bracket and the forward fender mount; and two transverse triangles between the chain stays, the seat stays and the seat tube; this is the position of greatest strength on the bike, capable of carrying the bike's rated load without damage.

Parking a bike with even a single-foot bottom bracket stand on an incline is no problem: draw the bike up perpendicular to the incline, put a rock on the downhill side of the rear wheel just where it meets the ground. lean the bike over on its stand towards the uphill side, and the bike is then braced between the rock, the foot of the stand, and the two tyres. With a two foot stand, either put a rock under the downhill foot of the stand, or park the bike facing upward with the front wheel locked by tying the brake lever to the handlebar grip with a piece of velcro you carry with you -- when not in use, mine hangs loose in a loop under the saddle.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:06 pm

For their low cost plus proof of concept seen in click-stand reviews, I'm more than willing to try a shooting bipod first.
Shooting bipods are not seats, unless you are saying all things that prop objects are seats. In that way, yah, they are seats.
They seat guns, rod shapes, like bike frames are made from.
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The models I'm looking at are around 19 oz.. By propping the bike from both sides at a high strong joint, stresses will equalize in both directions from a high position on the frame. It would be like steadying the bike with a hand for a few hours while painting. The shooting bipod would be as small as my painter's umbrella and the transport pocket I would build will accommodate both. It would be to convert the bike into a well balanced upright table with 4 points of support on uneven terrain, not for parking in general use. The click-stand design seems to be appreciated by people touring with loaded bikes because it keeps the support high, which reduces stress on the frame, and is more stable.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Andre Jute » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:25 am

Thanks for the explanation and the photo, Rebecca. Please report experience here so that if relevant I can share it with my bicycle correspondents in the same way that I relayed their experience with the Clickstick to you.

You're right, a bike, properly supported, makes a perfectly stable painting platform, even if it is not as elaborate as Matthew's. Here's my Utopia Kranich being used as a support for my Jullian 6x8in pochade box: http://thesketchingforum.org/forum3/vie ... cle#p19787. There's only a monopod stand, attached near the rear hub to a specially strengthened chain stay, holding it up.
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:32 am

Andre Jute wrote: Thanks...Here's my Utopia Kranich being used as a support for my Jullian 6x8in pochade box: http://thesketchingforum.org/forum3/vie ... cle#p19787. There's only a monopod stand, attached near the rear hub to a specially strengthened chain stay, holding it up.
Sure, I'll report back.
I looked at that earlier, and even with your explanation now, I can't see the stand. Looks like maybe the bike is leaning away. Is the stand on the other side of your bike?
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Andre Jute » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:30 am

The stand is the item labelled ESGE Pletscher in photographs you can see by scrolling down in this PDF:
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf
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Re: Quick getaways on a bike

Post by Rebecca » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:04 pm

And on about the bike...
It turned out that this bike has a plate welded to the base for a kick stand, but I chose a less traditional solution.
I bought a shooter's telescopic bipod that has a cradle with rubber seat.
I engage the front and back hand brakes with velcro straps so the bike can't roll.
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I prop the bike in an upright stable position with the bipod's support at a high point on the frame, then adjust each leg to uneven terrain.
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I lash the cradle to the bike with a velcro strap for added security.
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It's quick to mount and quick to remove. Yes, it is a separate part that needs to be toted, but I will add a place to quickly stash it.

The bipod is 19 oz.. By propping the bike from both sides at a high strong joint, stresses equalize in both directions from a high position on the frame. It is like steadying the bike with a hand for a few hours while painting. Closed up, the bipod is as small as my closed up painter's umbrella, and the transport pocket I build will accommodate both.

For now, I securely lash the bipod to the rack with the same velcro straps used for the brakes.
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This system converts the bike into a well balanced, sturdy, upright table with 4 points of support on uneven terrain.

At first I thought I would not use the bipod for general parking, but it turns out to work great for quick stops, leaning it just like a click-stand.
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Additionally, this bipod comes with carbide tips hidden inside the rubber feet to better grip fine rock or concrete walkways.
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How much weight can this particular bipod balance? It is designed to support heavy guns, but even if balanced, side to side pressure may exceed its capacity. I will not know until I fit my bike with the light weight easel, probably made of corrugated plastic, and load supplies and water. This is an inexpensive experiment, already useful just as it is. If for some reason the loaded bike is too much for the bipod, I will not hesitate to get a stronger (more expensive) unit, or custom build one to suit the load demand.

On a tangent, this bike with modifications was used by Jay Petervary in the last two Iditarod Trail Invitationals.
https://jaypetervary.com/iditabike/blow ... rod-trail/
He brought his Blackborow weight down to 28 lbs before loading. Mine weighs 36 lbs. That's light enough for my needs.
Rebecca

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